Topic: Forged lowers (Read 3365 times)

98Z5V · « **Reply #15 on:** October 10, 2011, 08:53:54 PM »

Quote from: MaDuce on October 08, 2011, 01:11:43 AM

You should make a fail-safe hand carving kit for these for those who don't have their own mills. Will broadly open up your customer base and give you a personal holding in the market.

There are two companies, that I know of, that already have these available - probably cross right over to these receivers.

Oz · « **Reply #16 on:** October 11, 2011, 10:19:48 PM »

I've never understood why the .308 lowers have been so much more expensive than their 5.56/.223 little brothers. I always assumed it's a supply/demand thing.

Anyway, I finished up a couple TM10 billet lowers after an extensive search for forged DPMS style 80% lowers.

If you could come up with forged DPMS style .308 lowers near the AR15 forged lower cost, you will have accomplished something that hasn't been done before.

I'd order some from ya!

Oz

MaDuce · « **Reply #17 on:** October 12, 2011, 01:50:10 PM »

.308 lower receivers ARE more complex and probably start from a billet nearly twice as large as that of the 5.56 lowers. This definitely means a hike up in price, but I don't see any real reason why it should be 3x as much as your average 5.56 lower.

I DO think the price of .308s is a matter of supply and demand, but I have also noticed that the firearm industry is often not living in the real world when it comes to customer preferences. In this case, that means I get the impression that few are considering that the steep price might be the main reason why the demand is as small as it is. Ever since .308 prices have been growing closer to .223 prices, demand and sales have gone through the roof. I think it was something like 7 years ago that .308 ARs cost at least $1500 and usually over $2000 and were VERY limited in availability. Now you can get them for as little as $800 despite the rise in firearm costs over the last 7 years and now .308 ARs are starting to become common place.

Oz · « **Reply #18 on:** October 12, 2011, 04:14:06 PM »

MaDuce,

I agree with everything -except about the .308 lowers being more complex. They use the exact same FCG/LPK's except for the bolt release, pivot and take-down pins. Some have a built in trigger guard I suppose... They do use a bit more aluminum. Maybe 25%? And you do make a more chips when machining, so there will be more machine time and tool wear. Wild guess, I'd give it a 25% cost difference just looking at that.

I was thinking about this more last night and I bet the real difference is in economy of scale. If you price a 10,000 piece run of AR-15 forged lowers VS a 1000 piece run, the 1000 piece run is going to be WAY more expensive from the foundry. Until .308 lowers are being purchased in the quantities that AR-15 lowers are being purchased, they're going to cost more. Thankfully, you're also right that .308 AR's are much more popular. I think quantities are going up, so prices are going down.

Oz

MaDuce · « **Reply #19 on:** October 13, 2011, 04:44:40 AM »

That's pretty much it. Though you missed one detail about the .308 receiver machining. There's a protrusion that runs along the sides of the top of the upper receiver that isn't found on the AR-15 receivers. Not a big deal, but it all comes down to my point that; while a LITTLE more complex and expensive, I see no reason apart from economics to justify a x3 price increase over AR-15 receivers. You seam to already be on that same page from what I gather.

BTW.

I don't think the aluminum is 25% more, at least at the start. The .454 Casull is only a few mm longer then a .357 Magnum and only about 9% of an inch wider. Put the two together and you have something that almost is or is twice the size in terms of bulk. The finished LR-308/AR-10 receiver may only be 20-25 % more aluminum, but the billet it's carved out of is probably close to double that of the billet the AR-15 receiver is machined out of.

Oz · « **Reply #20 on:** October 13, 2011, 10:07:51 AM »

Yeah, if you're talking billet, true. I guess I was looking to the forgings which are more efficient in their material use.

I just hope Colfax can do a big run of forged .308 lowers. I'd like to stock up. I know their website says Mid-October before they have anything new to say. Colfax hasn't updated this thread in a looooong time. (July 26th.)

Oz

MaDuce · « **Reply #21 on:** October 14, 2011, 04:44:38 PM »

Quote from: Oz on October 13, 2011, 10:07:51 AM

I just hope Colfax can do a big run of forged .308 lowers. I'd like to stock up. I know their website says Mid-October before they have anything new to say. Colfax hasn't updated this thread in a looooong time. (July 26th.)

Just remember this. Everyone gets antzy about this stuff and impatient, while manufacturers often struggle between that demand and the maintenance of quality and performance. I've designed and built my own guns before and can tell you that it's a huge challenge. It's allot like video game design. Some may seam simple and straight forward, but if you look at what it takes to design them, work out the bugs etc., it takes an ocean of work to accomplish and get it right. The same is true with firearm design.

I love everyone's optimism, but as a realist, I won't be surprised if the laws of nature win over our optimism and the receivers take longer then expected. In the world of firearm mechanics, you don't really know for sure until you're done. Until the receivers start shipping, I'll be ready for and expecting something to come up and put things off a bit. That's just how it works.

That all said, I'm really looking forward to getting one and intend to do so, assuming something else doesn't come my way first.

Herk · « **Reply #22 on:** December 08, 2011, 03:15:16 PM »

Still nothing?

Herk · « **Reply #23 on:** January 27, 2012, 08:45:11 AM »

Hello? Beuller?

Oz · « **Reply #24 on:** January 27, 2012, 08:50:50 AM »

Probably safe to call this one. Time of death... now. That's too bad.

MaDuce · « **Reply #25 on:** January 29, 2012, 06:44:54 PM »

I talked with Colfax Tactical about a month ago and they said they were planning to have production started middle of this month and be ready to start shipping some time around now, which in my way of thinking, translates in to middle of next month or so.

I've purchased one of their receivers before and regularly shop at a store that these guys do business with.

The reason you are not hearing from them on the board is because they're busy. I've seen stuff like this get started up before and I said before that I'd be surprised if it didn't take this long or longer to get the ball rolling. These things take time. Just hang in there.

rhinegarten · « **Reply #26 on:** February 11, 2012, 06:08:44 AM »

That's understandable. I work with bringing new products to market and it's not easy or fast if you want to deliver a quality product. In light of trying to make sure that everything is just right, perhaps the wait is a blessing. I'll keep an eye out, too. Making a complete .308 lower from an 80% is looking very much like my next challenge.

I have access to a small milling machine, and have milling table on an old drill press in my shop. It could be an extremely interesting project, but some type of drilling jig is needed o get the trigger, hammer, and safety holes in exactly the right places.

IM_JOHNNYV · « **Reply #27 on:** February 11, 2012, 02:57:48 PM »

I just finished an AR10 from a raw forging, and can tell you it is quite a daunting task. You can see the finished product here...

Jgun · « **Reply #28 on:** February 11, 2012, 04:21:37 PM »

Every time I look at these pictures I drool. Makes me want to attack a project as challenging as this, on my bridgeport. Wish I had your tooling. Tell me, Do you think it would be substantially more work, to make one of these from billit? It sure looks like you have to make cuts on 90% plus of the surfaces in order to make one using the forging.

IM_JOHNNYV · « **Reply #29 on:** February 11, 2012, 04:51:12 PM »

Quote from: Jgun on February 11, 2012, 04:21:37 PM

Tell me, Do you think it would be substantially more work, to make one of these from billit? It sure looks like you have to make cuts on 90% plus of the surfaces in order to make one using the forging.

Trust me, if you're thinking billet you need one of two things, either a CNC and programming knowledge, or tons and tons of patience. I'm not saying it can't be done on a Bridgeport, but "that's a project"
I documented my build if you want to do one from a raw forging. Here's a link to the document (be patient, it's 7.34 MB)