Topic: palmetto state armory (Read 799 times)

unforgiven · « **on:** January 31, 2012, 09:55:39 AM »

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/complete-uppers/14-5.html Contacted PSA regarding a 14.7 5.56 upper on the reccommendation of brother 98-Tom.Asked the girl if I could have the flash hider not to be permanently attached she said no,asked to speak to someone else she put me in touch with a youngman asked him the same question told him I wanted to put my own device at the end and told him I was a member of .308AR.He spoke to his boss,who said OK and was going to change the computer so that now everyone has an option to put their own device at the end of barrel.+1 for PSA and listening to the end user.Will start a project in a few weeks and will purchase their upper.For the money with BCG and charging handle great value.Kudos to PSA.

survivalshop · « **Reply #1 on:** January 31, 2012, 10:20:29 AM »

Kinda wonder if they can do that legally , because that makes it a SBR . As soon as you get it & have ANY lower it can be put on , its a complete rifle . That would make you in possesion of a unregistered SBR .

Having just the barrel & not attached to a receiver , is some thing else .

Just some thing to look into . For your own good & maybe there's .

unforgiven · « **Reply #2 on:** January 31, 2012, 10:29:45 AM »

Like you said its not an SBR until you have upper and lower together.Once I chose the muzzle device I want I'll do what I have to make legit.

unforgiven · « **Reply #3 on:** January 31, 2012, 10:36:08 AM »

Just called my local P.D. Sgt. will call back,will know more later.

sinsterurge · « **Reply #4 on:** January 31, 2012, 06:51:01 PM »

I was under the impression just having the parts in the same "area" could be looked at as "intent" to assemble....be careful

98Z5V · « **Reply #5 on:** January 31, 2012, 06:53:05 PM »

Quote from: survivalshop on January 31, 2012, 10:20:29 AM

Kinda wonder if they can do that legally , because that makes it a SBR .

Not an SBR until it's attached to something. Until then, it's only an upper.

It's not up to the company to decide what you do with your NFA Items. It's up to the end user. If I want to purchase a 14.5" barrel, or an 11.5" barrel, or a 7.5" complete upper, it's none of that company's business what I do with it. Just an upper, or even a barrel, is not an NFA Item by itself.

When I'm looking at stuff like that online, I appreciate the company listing a warning that says "NFA Items are your responsibility," et al. When I see a company that lists a 11.5" barrel, and tells you you can't buy it because it's an NFA Item, then they tel me I need to order from a dealer - I don't buy that item from them at all. They have NO idea whether I'm building a legal SBR, or a pistol from that part - nor should they care. ATF says you can own it without a purchase-restriction, to the company shouldn't be placing a restriction on the individual.

I don't like the fact that YHM does this - but I still buy from them, once in awhile. Most of the time, if I'm looking for a YHM part, I buy it from a vendor. For other companies that have this policy, I don't and won't even buy from them.

Perfect example:
http://yhm.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=17_29_58&products_id=400

That's BS. That barrel isn't part of a controlled item until I make it into a rifle, without a tax stamp. I can buy that, legally, and have it shipped straight to my house, and build a completely legal AR pistol out of it. I don't need a Class 3 Dealer to do that, not do I need any kind of ATF approval. Companies that do that just suck. I don't like that YHM does it, and I keep supporting them anyway - it's a personal-confusion kinda thing...

98Z5V · « **Reply #6 on:** January 31, 2012, 06:55:10 PM »

Quote from: sinsterurge on January 31, 2012, 06:51:01 PM

I was under the impression just having the parts in the same "area" could be looked at as "intent" to assemble....be careful

That's a myth and a rumor, and it keeps on going. I don't want this thread to turn into a "what's legal?" thread here. However, there is no such thing as "constructive intent," as it's commonly called and talked about. It's all on print on the BATFE website, it just takes some reading and looking to find info.

unforgiven · « **Reply #7 on:** January 31, 2012, 07:25:55 PM »

Thanks for clearing that up brother Tom,the fact that the boss at PSA heard me and even changed the computer so others know there are options.It's stupid to have to hack off and redo something you know you don't want from the startOther vender's didn't want to sell me a 14.5 cause they said it could be a SBR,don't tell me what to do with the product or impose your morality on me.+1 for PSA and there customer satisfaction.And thank you brother Tom for your recommendation

98Z5V · « **Reply #8 on:** January 31, 2012, 08:02:47 PM »

Quote from: unforgiven on January 31, 2012, 07:25:55 PM

Other vender's didn't want to sell me a 14.5 cause they said it could be a SBR,...

"Could be" doesn't mean IT IS. That's why I don't like that policy. It could be growing into a pistol, too - which is perfectly legal. It's the consumer's responsiblity to do the right thing with possible NFA items.

Example, from Bravo Company - this is the right way to do it, as a vendor:

"Noveske N4 Light Carbine Basic Upper Receiver Group
10.5" NFA Barrel (all NFA Rules apply)"

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Noveske-N4-Light-Carbine-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/n4%20basic%2010%20urg.htm

Anyone with a credit card can order that and have it sent straight to their house, and doorstep. What you do with it when it gets there is your responsibility - the company told you is was an NFA item, now you need to educate yourself on how and what you can build it up as, or attach it to - that's on the individual.

survivalshop · « **Reply #9 on:** February 01, 2012, 06:52:24 AM »

Those are not rumors , just have a M16 selector , M 16 disconnector & an AR 15 receiver in the same place when the BATFE is in your house & you will see how the rumors turn out . An SBR is no different in the eye's of the BATFE. Both Title II weapons.

I am also not trying make a legal thing of this , just common sense. Send your muzzle device to them & have it attached before they send it to you .

I was a class one & three FFL dealer for almost twenty years & in today's environment , I would be even more careful.

unforgiven · « **Reply #10 on:** February 01, 2012, 02:22:17 PM »

Thank you for your concern brother survivalshop,I'm good with what I have to do.

98Z5V · « **Reply #11 on:** February 01, 2012, 07:37:53 PM »

Quote from: survivalshop on February 01, 2012, 06:52:24 AM

Those are not rumors , just have a M16 selector , M 16 disconnector & an AR 15 receiver in the same place when the BATFE is in your house & you will see how the rumors turn out .

Again, not true - you have to have more than a selector and disconnector to make it run FA. Those parts do not equal "machine gun."

imschur · « **Reply #12 on:** February 01, 2012, 07:43:04 PM »

Speaking of PSA. I just used them for the first time. Bought 500 rounds of 45 acp Federal American Eagle. Man that was a heavy little box.

survivalshop · « **Reply #13 on:** February 02, 2012, 07:15:57 AM »

Quote from 1986 amendment for gun control act of 1968 and national firearms act.

Quote

"The definition of a machinegun includes any combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun and any part designed and intended solely for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun. "

The term " any part " kinda stands out .

I'm sure & I will look it up , but having a complete SBR upper( and a AR 15 lower around it & no tax stamp ) would probably read about the same .

I'm not trying to scare any one , just trying to help keep the uninformed out of trouble .

98Z5V · « **Reply #14 on:** February 02, 2012, 11:06:03 AM »

Quote from: survivalshop on February 02, 2012, 07:15:57 AM

Quote from 1986 amendment for gun control act of 1968 and national firearms act.

The term " any part " kinda stands out .

I'm sure & I will look it up , but having a complete SBR upper( and a AR 15 lower around it & no tax stamp ) would probably read about the same .

I'm not trying to scare any one , just trying to help keep the uninformed out of trouble .

That example - it's not an SBR upper, it's just an upper that's not wearing a 16" barrel. Just a shorter barrel. Is that an SBR upper, or is that a pistol upper? You can now have one lower, a +16" upper, and a less-than-16" upper, all together. ATF Ruling 2011-4 stated that.

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf
http://308ar.com/forum/firearm-industry-news-and-gossip/atf-ruling-2011-4-concerning-ar-pistols-and-rifles/

http://308ar.com/forum/firearm-industry-news-and-gossip/atf-ruling-2011-4-concerning-ar-pistols-and-rifles/

As soon as they permitted the individual to build a pistol (first action), and allowed you to turn in into a rifle (that part is not new), and then revert that firearm back to a pistol (this is new). As long as it was a pistol build first, it can go to rifle configuration, and back to a pistol again. Back and forth.

A person can accomplish that with one built lower, two uppers, but with two receiver extension options. Buttstock and pistol config. Perfectly legal.

What would they say if you have the lower assembled with the buttstock, and both uppers loose in the safe? Don't know. Legally, can you do that? Yes, per their ruling. Better have that pistol receiver extension close by, too, though.

A short upper is not an SBR. It's just an upper with a barrel less than 16". Putting it onto a rifle-config lower, without a stamp - that's the crime. Not assembling it onto a rifle-config lower, is the key. Only put it on a pistol lower if you don't have the SBR tax stamp.

With my pistol build, I locked it up with all the other rifles. Not worried at all about storing it that way. It stayed together as a pistol. I even had a spare upper for it. I kept them together - complete pistol with spare pistol upper. Those weren't SBRs, not in the least.